“The west wants to pretend both/neither nations have legit security interests- yet somehow the US/Canada and UK have ‘security interests’ on borders they are no where near? There is that bizarre disconnect from reality that persists.”

They drive on countries which are exploitable. No exploitable nations means a security risk form themselves. I know I am removing alot of detail with this. But that is how it looks to me

” The only side I take are the innocents who are blown up. And for the sake clarifying, that doesn’t mean I am choosing country/leadership or whatever. Just innocents in general.”

I get that. 100%. As has been stated Ukraine didn’t have to be the way it is turning out. In some ways I see Russia and Turkey have similar issues on the borders.
The west wants to pretend both/neither nations have legit security interests- yet somehow the US/Canada and UK have ‘security interests’ on borders they are no where near? There is that bizarre disconnect from reality that persists.

“That said bloody pasts are everywhere to be found.. even here in Canada. The US. In ancient cultures. Etc., Sadly, bloody pasts are not unique to Russia. Imperial or otherwise”

I know, but its the manner and extend in which those acts are committed. You could argue that for the sake of end its justified to use any means, Which would include culling the population in any way possible to get a dominant position and protect its future, that is how the Russian federation came where it is now. But this is also an “operandus modi”,

For the sake of the argument I am limiting it to UK, USA and Russia. These three Are not so different in my view. The only difference is that UK and USA are better at sugarcoating. That is also why I feel there is a bigger distrust towards UK and USA than towards Russia. Once you see trough that façade you are disconnected from the accepted view and you have no choice but to take the other view.

I have the same issue, I know what UK and USA did. And I feel like I should stand with Russia or at least give moral support. But I am also aware of Russia itself. I continuously have to keep reminding myself that the leadership of Russia is no better than the others and the length they are prepared to go.

Ergo why I don’t take sides in this conflict. The only side I take are the innocents who are blown up. And for the sake clarifying, that doesn’t mean I am choosing country/leadership or whatever. Just innocents in general.

“Penny this might be me, but the way you look at Russia is almost as if you are unaware of the bloody past caused by both imperial Russia and communist Russia”

I may be less aware or have less in depth knowledge of these things, but, do have some. This may be geographical too (you may be closer geographically, so steeped deeper in the history)

That said bloody pasts are everywhere to be found.. even here in Canada. The US. In ancient cultures. Etc., Sadly, bloody pasts are not unique to Russia. Imperial or otherwise

You think the name change was about the association with the bird?
Maybe. I’d never thought of that though?

The name change has probably to do more with the association they kept making with the bird turkey. It annoyed a certain group of people. Same reason I kept using Turkiye in most of my posts.

“Still, I’m less inclined to think Russia necessarily wants this outcome- They’d be okay with an independent state within Ukrainian”

Before the war, probably. But things changed now. When blood of soldiers starts flowing. the old solutions are not applicable anymore. Ukraine is getting depleted, but its costing the Russians.

To leave Ukraine as it is, is just a risk which can cause a redo of this entire thing again. And when it comes to these kind of issues the Russians don’t like risks.

Like the circassian genocide. Or stalin era move of native’s to siberia because they went against the ussr, causing millions to perish there.

Penny this might be me, but the way you look at Russia is almost as if you are unaware of the bloody past caused by both imperial Russia and communist Russia. (But than again this is that one thing which we not on the same line, I can leave it to time will tell)

“The following point to keep in mind is that this person was probably massaged into this position and probably has a get-out-jail card promised probably by the Americans.”

I could see that being the case.-

“If in the end of this, Ukraine ends up split.”

This could have been avoided had Zelensky abided by previous agreements- Still, I’m less inclined to think Russia necessarily wants this outcome- They’d be okay with an independent state within Ukrainian
borders- Think Transnistria or South Osetia.. and Abkhazia.

However it will have been Zelensky that sacrificed the Ukrainian people. Zelensky and Biden led US.

“Zelensky will probably end up in Poland or America and hailed as heroic figure who did his best against the mad Russians”

I could see that- including the negative meme about Russians.
NATO/Poland are more likely to annex a chunk of Ukraine- and perhaps this was what they were after all along?
speculative.

“I am half-convinced that the Russians won’t stop at Ukraine.”
I’m not convinced they will go any further at this point.

Regarding Turkiye ( I got to get used to that)
The name change is very suggestive that they are looking to central asia more then to the west-

A good comedian is also a good story teller. Keeping the audience engaged, knowing what to avoid and what to tell. The following point to keep in mind is that this person was probably massaged into this position and probably has a get-out-jail card promised probably by the Americans. If in the end of this, Ukraine ends up split.

Zelensky will probably end up in Poland or America and hailed as heroic figure who did his best against the mad Russians. And the sacrifices made by the Ukrainians not to be forgotten and used as a reminder that the Russians are vicious, ruthless etcetera.

Like leaders of old, putting the people they ought to protect in jeopardy by fulfilling a role he was assigned to. In the end it seems like it will have played out like I thought it would. The Russian war-machine got a kick-start, and I am half-convinced that the Russians won’t stop at Ukraine. This doesn’t mean that they will jump into another battle after Ukraine, but they will be building up their capabilities and forces, and try to pull Turkiye to its side.

In the meanwhile, Europe will try to bolster its forces….. but……. You know. Its people has grown soft and have different priorities. If my feeling are correct, Europe has the potential to muster up a force to resist the Russians, but those who can are more of the feeling. Eeeh, Fighting for what Europe represents. Yeah thanks but no thanks. Have fun dealing with the Russians <_<.

I mean sure its all speculation, but you know. People are vicious beings, they just express them differently.