--- title: "US Officials Hold Back Channel Ukraine Talks With Russia" type: "post" post_id: "4569" slug: "us-officials-hold-back-channel-ukraine-talks-with-russia" canonical: "https://pennyforyourthoughts2.ca/2023/07/07/us-officials-hold-back-channel-ukraine-talks-with-russia/" markdown_url: "https://pennyforyourthoughts2.ca/2023/07/07/us-officials-hold-back-channel-ukraine-talks-with-russia.md" json_url: "https://pennyforyourthoughts2.ca/2023/07/07/us-officials-hold-back-channel-ukraine-talks-with-russia.json" txt_url: "https://pennyforyourthoughts2.ca/2023/07/07/us-officials-hold-back-channel-ukraine-talks-with-russia.txt" published: "2023-07-07T12:21:44+00:00" modified: "2023-07-07T12:21:44+00:00" author: "penny2" categories: - "Uncategorized" tags: - "perception management" - "Russia" - "state sponsored terrorism" - "Ukraine" - "US" site_name: "PFYT2" publisher: "" language: "en-US" generator: "easyPress Markdown" generator_version: "1.0.6" --- **First, I’m glad to read this news and that these type of talks are taking place. Second, we are all aware or should be that this is a proxy war between the US and Russia, using Ukrainians as fodder.** **Third, the Biden administration is continuing on with the rhetoric *“nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine”* which is rubbish.** **This is grade A bullsh\*t. Ukraine was set to sign a deal March 2022 and the US crushed that** **It is the US, with a little help from their NATO consorts, that’s keeping this destructive fighting going with seemingly endless supplies of money and weapons**!! ***“nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine”*** **is jingoism** [NBCnews](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-us-officials-secret-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610) > **A group of former senior U.S. national security officials has held secret talks with prominent [Russians ](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-says-foiled-ukrainian-drone-attack-moscow-kyivs-counteroffensiv-rcna92493)believed to be close to the [Kremlin ](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-russia-wagner-mercenary-prigozhin-army-bombing-troops-rcna90870)**— and, in at least one case, with the country’s top diplomat — with the **aim of laying the groundwork for negotiations** to end the war in [Ukraine](https://www.nbcnews.com/world/russia-ukraine-news), half a dozen people briefed on the discussions said. > > **In a high-level example of the back-channel diplomacy taking place behind the scenes,** [Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergey Lavrov](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-lavrov-hospital-checkup-indonesia-g20-rcna57007) met with members of the group for several hours in April in New York, four former officials and two current officials said. > > On the agenda were some of the thorniest issues in the war in Ukraine, **like the fate of [Russian-held territory that Ukraine](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-visits-russian-troops-occupied-ukraine-rcna80154) may never be able to liberate and the search for an elusive diplomatic off-ramp that could be tolerable to both sides.** > > **Meeting with Lavrov were [Richard Haass](https://www.cfr.org/expert/richard-haass), a former diplomat and the outgoing president of the [Council on Foreign Relations](https://www.cfr.org/)**, current and former officials said. **The group was joined by Europe expert [Charles Kupchan ](https://gufaculty360.georgetown.edu/s/contact/00336000014RjepAAC/charles-kupchan)and Russia expert [Thomas Graham](https://jackson.yale.edu/person/thomas-graham/), both former White House and State Department officials who are Council on Foreign Relations fellows.** **All members of the Council on Foreign Relations- This gives the Biden administration the ability to claim or creates the perception of being uninvolved or unconnected though they would absolutely be aware of what is occurring**– **And connected.** > **The discussions have taken place with the knowledge of the Biden administration** but not at its direction, and the former officials involved in the Lavrov meeting briefed the White House National Security Council afterward, two of the sources said. > The discussions are known in **diplomatic parlance as “Track Two diplomacy,”** a form of unofficial engagement involving private citizens not in government — **or, in the case of the Lavrov meeting, “Track 1.5,” meaning current officials are involved on one end of the conversation** > > **On the U.S. side, the discussions have involved some former Defense Department officials, including Mary Beth Long, a former assistant defense secretary with deep experience in NATO issues, according to two people briefed on the talks.** **Read entire article at NBC- link provided above** > [CIA’s Burns Visited Ukraine To Talk Counteroffensive?](https://pennyforyourthoughts2.ca/2023/07/01/cias-burns-visited-ukraine-to-talk-counteroffensive/) `That report ended with these observations/question`**s** > **It seems highly unlikely Ukraine has months to succeed. They’ve had month already and have only lost more ground. Lost more territory.** > **Are we going to be seeing some sort of negotiated settlement on the horizon?** > **Ukrainians will have to ask themselves if fighting for the US was really worth all the death, destruction and loss of their nation state assets. The loss of their future.** **They could have settled last year in March.**